>> welcome to the program. we're in washington for a conversation with al hunt and julianna goldman of blockberg news about the events this week, 9 fiscal cliff, questions about gun control, and others. >> was talking toome negotiating experts this week as i was work on a story about the relationship between the speaker and the president. and they say that in effective negotiation the person with the leverage needs to let the other party save face. and in this situation the president does hold the cards. he has the leverage and by giving the concessions on medicare, on medicaid, on social security, he would have taken a lot of heat from progressives who were already starting to hear that this week. and they that would have been through the saving face that could have helped john bayne never this. >> we continue with george stens founder of the kennedy center honors program and the american film institute. >> president kennedy said i look forward to an america that will not be afraid of

grace and bite. i look forward to an american that will honor achievement in the arts, the way we honor achievement in business or state craft. and that's what the kennedy center honors are. >> we conclude this evening with the stars and director of the new film, this is 40. joining us paul rudd, leslie mann and judd apatow. >> i think it is a couple that my own onion is tt they love each other and they're deal well problems that a lot of marriages deal with. and maybe they're just handling it in the wrong way sometimes. and i think they're kind of succumbing to the pressures of all of it. >> like paul said we kind of share a brain and so we, you know, we have a shorthand with each other, with all of it. and we have i mean we're constantly having conversations about what we are-- about screens and

these characters. >> it is person. we debate all the time how truthful it is, and how personal it is. and some days it is like this is really personal, this isn't like us at all. so we change our opinion moment to moment,. >> rose: al hunt, julianna goldman, george stevens, paul rud, leslie mann and paul apatow when we continue. >> funding for charlie rose was provided by the following kohl qol captioning sponsored by rose communications

from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. .

>> rose: we're in washington where fiscal cliff negotiations continue. as we taped this program it is 5:30 p.m. the house of representatives is expected to vote on the republic plan b later it thisvening. house majority leader eric cantor urged democrats to support the bill which extends the bush tax cuts on income over 1 million. >> we house republicans are taking concrete actions to avoid the fiscal cliff. absent a balanced offer from the president, this is our nation's best option. and senate democrats should take up both of these measures immediately. and the president has a decision to make. he can support these measures or be responsible for reckless spending and the largest tax hike in ameran histy. >> rose: the white house has pledged to veto plan b as 2012 comes to a close it remains to be seen whether law lakers will rise above partisanship or avert fiscal crisis. joining me al hunt and july

yana goldman. we want to talk about the fiscal cliff. we want to talk about white house appointments. we want to talk about gun control and we want to talk about hearings on capitol hill involving benghazi. but i'm pleased to have my friend julianna goldman and al hunt. and al joins me this evening in recognizing that i didn't have a tie, so he joins me. so thank you, sir. >> i love the look, charles. you've been covering the fiscal cliff, where are we? >> it is a big question, it's what white house officials are asking. it's what people on capitol hill are asking. as you mentioned the house is going to be voting on this plan b, the alternate measure that john boehner has proposed. it's likely to pass the house but unlikely to pass the senate. so the white house has threatened that they're going to veto it regardless if it were to get to the president's desk. the big question is what happens there. and ultimately it still needs to come down to the president and speaker boehner getting into a room, this is a deal that only the two of them can hash out. >> i thought that is what they were doing. >> you know, they've

actually waited until close to the deadline to start to get into the room, to for the negotiations to be one-on-one t was a lesson that they learned back in the summer 2011 when they felt that they alienated members of both of their parties. but one of the biggest barriers to getting a deal right now is that there is he nor-- enormous amount of mistrust between the president and speaker. white house officials say at at theast minute what you are seeing again is what happened back in the summer of 2011, that the speaker changes course and he tries something else. and blows it up. they say that maybe he's more concerned about saving his speakership than he is, you know, for what's good of the country and the republican and the house of representatives. and boehner's aides don't trust the president either. they don't see him as an effective negotiator and they think he oversells his ability to be able to bring republicans and bring democrat at long. >> rose: al better wa, do you think? >> i think the country is out there sang, you know,

why don't you clowns get your act together. this really is-- i think it just infuriates people to see business as usual with something that is this serious. and charlie, what justifies that position, i think is they aren't that far apart. now to be sure a lot of what they do now has to then be really implemented next year. but when you talk about the macro numbers at least, they're talking about a package now, a little over $2 trillion. they've already done a little over one last year. about half-and-half and on spending, they're abt 50 billion art,ver 10 years. over 10 years. and on revenues they're about 200 billion apart. that shouldn't be hard to bridge. that should be very easy. but i think it goes to what julianna said. there is such a mistrust. and both sides but particularly boehner have to worry about their rank and file. i think obama has gone pretty far. >> rose: y do? >> i do. >> rose: but has he laid out where the spending cuts will be so bayne kerr take that

back to his members and say this is what i got in exchange for rates? >> what he has laid out ses'willg to do the so-called cost-of-living index which he is a big deal. it's $150 billion over the next ten years, $900 billion for the ten years after that it's a big deal. and he's also clearly indicated he's willing to do means testing for medicare recipients. bad news for you and me but it's good for the country and good for the budget. so i think that is-- there is real movement there. he's actually laid out more specifics than boehner has. >> really. >> i was talking to some negotiating experts this week as i was work on a story about the relationship betweethe speaker and the president. and they say that in an effective negotiation the person with the leverage needs to let the other party save face. and in this situation, the president does hold the cards. he has the leverage and by giving the concessions on medicare, on medicaid, on social security, he would have taken a lot of heat from progressive you were already starting to hear

that this week and that would have been through the saving face that could have helped john boehner. >> why didn't he do that. if he could have given some face to john boehner he could have lived with whatever pressure he had from democrats? >> i think oama was-- . >> rose: that's what he did. >> and boehner then, and they thought on monday, the white house and democrats thought a deal was almost impresent-- imminent. they really were optimistic. and that optimism faded in the next 48 hours when plan b came up why didn't john boehner do it? he has to worry about his caucus can. he's going to be re-elected as speaker january 3rd and all it takes is about 20 of the right wing republicans to vote for else. >> eric cantor. >> yeah, whoever they-- you don't have to be a member, actually. they could vote for anyone. if he doesn't get 218 he's not speaker. there are those who think he has to wait until that is settled. >> that is what they say, they say baiferner just

can't cross the bridge right now without the support of cantor, mccarthy, the other members of his leadership and that in negotiations what they say is no, we can't go for that because that could cost john the speakership. >> here's the problem i think the republicans have. if you just look at the landscape right now, in the election they were vy few clearly drawn issues. one of them was the tax cuts issue. they both discussed it. i think people knew what it was. secondly if you look at polls it is clear that what most people out there want is the tax proposals that obama is proposing. and they don't want the entitlement cuts. that's why obama is going further than not only his base but public opinion. and thirdly what really is dramatically different, i think a large part of the business community, the influence, financial people who have been really, really quite down on obama, i think this time they are moreith him than boeer. >> don't they have pressure. can't they apply some pressure on those republicans who they have contributed to their campaign sms. >> they are trying to but

this republican party is no longer the party of big business, that's good and that's bad because it means they can't get pressure. and they aren't as receptive to pressure. >> also over the last few weeks did you hear the lloyd blankfeins of the world, other c.e.o.s, wal-mart, at&t saying that as they think as part of a balanced deal ultimately rates need to go up. and so boehner at least one of the, one of the points of optimistic that democrats and white use offials point to over the last week is that boehner did go up on rates. >> rose: i talked to the chancellor of the exchequer last night on the program. and he said, you know, bowles simpson is a pretty good plan. i'm not sure why they don't use that as their model. >> it is. and they were getting fairly close to that, with one or two important caveats with what i think was the latest obama offer. they then worked a few more compromises. the thing about bowles simpson is it really proposes several options. one of which is to cut rates and broaden the basement now you have to do that next

year. tax return, jim baker the most skillful treasury secretary took him two years with people like bill bradley and dan ross ten you couldski, that takes a long time. but they can at least adopt those numbers right now. and i really think they were close. and they may be close again. but right now it's just a turnoff. >> rose: this country has been going through enormous mourning for what happened to 20 young people in flutown, connecticut. has it changed anything here? specifically i want to get to the gundebate but generalla sense of, look, we've got to pull together on some things here. we've got to get beyond our dysfunction. >> i think people feel differently about this one than most of the other terrible tragedies we've seen. with the little children, the awfulness of it. whether that endures. whether that really means there will be action

on-- i'm not sure, charlie. but i do think there is more of a shock. there is more of a sense. and youalk to rublins and democrats. and i think that one thing that i think the president did skillfully was putting joe biden in charge of doing something about this. because biden understands these issues. he's been the chairman of the judiciary committee. he understands it's not just guns. that's a big part of it. but it's also hollywood, video games, cultural issues. and you've got to have cops. and i think what they are going to look for, republicans and cops and race car drivers and athletes and people like that. >> rose: weigh in on the debate. >> yeah. >> rose: somebody said to me that the interesting thing isthat the police are always in favor of gun control. sheriffs are less so because they have to face the electorate. >> i think that's true. and certainly big city cops are almost universally for some kind of gun control. and the owner of this network, michael bloomberg will be as forceful as

anyone in advancing this cause. and look, i think the high watermark for any gun control or any gun activity is right after a terrible tragedy. never hathat been more tr tha tday. and then the other side gets in and you get not weeds and it gets harder. >> if you asked tonight ten of the wisest people know, are we going over the fiscal cliff, what would they say? >> ten informed opinions. >> yes. >> yes. >> albert. same question. >> yes, short term. >> short term. you know, my guess is a month from today it will be resolved but it will not be resolved on january 1. >> we had an election and the president said elections make a difference. they certainly make a difference in terms of who gets what job. the president has not said he's going to nominate anyone as we speak. we thought he was going to nominate susan rice although he never did. and never confirmed that he was. she had to withdraw because of benghazi incident. we had some conversation about chuck hagel as secretary of defense, president hasn't said yea or

nay. we know that he likes him. when the senators were reasonably close we know that john kerry maybe the secretary of state. before we talk about them, talk about the secretary of state who has the office today. she is in washington. she did not testify because she fell and had a concussion. is this a subject of great conversation here about what's happened to hillary? opinions yes. great conversation, great conjecture, not much knowledge. but a feeling that you know, that she may be sicker than they have officially let on. i don't know what that means, charlie. i don't know if that is a short-term situation or not. but this is clearly something that is more than just, you know, a flu and a concussion testimony may be just the aftereffects of all that. d she'll be finen aeek or so. but there's a lot of talk about that. obviously she's one of the most compelling figures in

america. that's part of it. but you and i both know another part of it is too, that she is, right now today if you went to any bookie she would be the prohibitive favorite to be the next president of the united states. a lot can change in four years, that is where it would be today. >> what dow hear? >> i wouldn't say that any of my sourcing is any better than als. so -- >> okay. >> but what about, kerry is going to be nominated. white house aidee confirm that kerry is the choice. >> of all the names it that you just mentioned and appointments, kerry seems to be the one that's most assured for secretary of state. i don't think the president has made a decision yet for secretary of defense although hagel is a leading contender for that. >> senator from nebraska. >> yes. and who endorsed the president back in 2008 as well. and then you've got the treasury secretary. a lot of that hinges on fiscal cliff, jack lew, his

current chief of staff. >> former budget director is the leading candidate but we also heard this week that the c.e.o. of american express is in the running as well for treasury secretary or maybe to come in as an expanded role as a commerce secretary. that's a department that they've wanted to bring a business leader there. or as some other top official in the economic team. >> what dow hear? >> same thing. i would probably put roger altman in the treasury mix too. but those are the same names that i'm hearing too. and the interesting new one which s a story that hans and julianna brohis week was ken chin all which would be an interesting choice if he were chosen for anything. >> rose: i want to close with this. >> charlie, let me say one thing. they're out on a limb with hagel right now. if they back down on hagel bhaus at the floated his name. if they back down on hagel after they backed down on susan rice, maybe that was the wise thing to do, but when dow it twice in a row, that suggests weakness. >> rose: so they can't back down. >> i think they would have problems if they backed

down. >> rose: and the question comes from what, his attitude about israel. >> the theyo cons don't like him in geral, some is israel, some iran, some other stuff. >> rose: i want to close this with this question. so the president won this election. it looked like a brilliant campaign run by his team. he comes to washington knowing that he will not run for public office again. is he changed? is he different? is he, what does he say in you interviewed him, first intersince the election? >> he seemed kind of tired in that interview. i think he always, for him going to hawaii on that situation is always an opportunity for him to sit back, to write, to reflect, to really think about the next step. you've seen it every year of the presidency. and i think that that, if he can get to hawaii, if he's not bogged down by the fiscal cliff, i think those are questions that he is going to be asking himself. >> one thing i heard that i thought was just, i hated to read it because i hate to think of politics that way although i know the reality

of it is that the president helped me on those, basically said a lot of people opposing the fiscal cliff negotiations because they just don't like me. >> some of this, some of what goes on in thi tn ese days is more personalized than it used to be. so i think there is an element of that. but you know that was also true for george w. bush. so it does transcend that kind of rancor that kind of pain transforms live, i think one of the interesting tests for whether the president is changed or not is how much does he want-- how much does he want to deal with politician. he doesn't really like spending a lot of time with politicians and i'm sorry, that is what the business is about. >> they just had a screening of lincoln at the white house. and that's all about how president deals with politicians. and how he trades a howe gotiates and how he has to do a whole lot of things with people that he doesn't necessarily like to get what he wants. >> but there is also an element of hubris in the white house in thinking well, it worked for us the past four years. we've won re-electionment

and maybe they don't need to change things. but certainly whether or not he does is going to have major implications for what his secretary term looks like. >> we be well advised to look at that film that dharlie eluded to because that was lincoln after re-election. you know, and he accomplished an extraordinary amount in those few months. >> thank you. >> great to see you. >> thank you. >> thank you, julianna. >> we'll be right back. stay with us. george stevens junior was just 11 years old when he first attend the academy awards in 194 -- nowt 80 he is receiving an honorary oscar of his own for lifetime of contribution to film. even founder of the american film institute in 1967. in 1978, he created the kennedy center honors. they have since become one of the most important celebrations of american culture. george stevens jury is also a director, writer and a producer his friend warren competie has said of him quote one would be hard pressed to find someone who has done more to further the artistic

stature of american film than george. mi pleased to have him on this program to talk about a remarkable life in which we try to reflect on what he has done for art and also for film. thank you for coming. >> pleasure, charlie. >> rose: it was so great to be at the kennedy center honors on sunday night. >> right. >> rose: because i knew, i didn't know when you were coming back to washington, you know. when did you arrive back? >> well, i was at e rehearsal on saturday afternoon at 3:00. i had decided that i would stop complaining about people's carbon footprint and i accepted someone's offer to send a plane. >> rose: yes. >> and i flew out at 3:00, landed in los angeles at 5:30 and went to the dinner. and sydney poitier present immediate with the oscar. and at 11:30 we were wheels up and i was on the kennedy center stage at 9 in the morning. >> rose: oh boy. d th thatightou got

thisward, you walked out with your son who is now work with you on this. >> yes, that made it possible. >> rose: what did it mean for sydney poitier to give new lifetime achievement? >> well, sydney i think is really one of the great figures, not just in the performing arts but as a man. and-- . >> rose: he defines class and elegance and integrity. >> yeah. and it's an amazing story how he, you know, growing up so poor in the bahamas, and becoming this symbol of the best in american life. so to receive it from sydney was veryoving. rose: i want to talk about people who influenced you on your life. tell me about your faefer who you made a documentary about. >> i was blessed with a great father. >> rose: yeah. >> and which was not the norm. sons of famous fathers in hollywood were not always going to have the best outcome. and he for your audience, he made gungadin and shane and a place in the sun, and giant and the diary of ann

frank and swingtime. >> rose: about as good a list as it is. >> i think so. >> rose: and in world war ii ma so incredible footage of the fighting in kbot wars. >> exactly. i mean he left, he was 36 years old. he didn't have to go in the army. and he asked for a commission. and he headed up the combat motion picture photography for the war in europe, d-day, the liberation of paris, the liberation of daukau. and i worked with him. i worked with him on "shane" i worked with him on "giant" to a certain extent. i was his associate producer and directed the locati sces f the diery of ann frank. and speaking of men tors, my father was the principal one. and i learned so much from him. not just craft but ideas and then ed murrow asked me to come back. >> rose: before that, so are you there working with your father. are you working with the

great directors. i assume your clear intent was to become a director at that moment. >> it was. it was. and programs somewhere deep in my mind i was think do i want to spendy entire life tryi to become the second-best film direct never my family. but very much. and i was directing alfred hitchcock and peter gunn and television series out there i really loved it. >> rose: and then there is a meeting, ed war r murrow is in los angeles, jack kennedy, president kennedy had made him head of u.s. information agency, usia i guess. >> correct. >> and he's there and he requests a meeting with you and he wants you to come to washington. >> yeah. >> rose: and you say no. >> he asked me. and i said i've really am nolike my father's partner. and he is just beginning the greatest story ever told. a very ambitious film. and i said as enticing an offer, opportunity as this is, i really can't do it.

and a couple of days later i was at the studio. i will never forget dad and pri walking across the fox lot to lunch. and murrow came up, and you know, so i told him and he just looked at me and he said you have to do it. he understood that this was my kind chance t fly. and de it at considerable sacrifice because it made it-- . >> rose: difficult for him to do what he was doing. >> yeah. >> rose: he understood it was important for to you find your legs somewhere else. >> so when i say he was a great father, that perhaps expresses it. >> rose: then you were off to washington and you never left washington. >> no, well, we have a place in los angeles. >> rose: i know but washington is where you are based. >> yeah. >> rose: and you made documentaries too. but did you find the kind of satisfaction for documentars that would you have found making feature films? >> i did. you know, i've been able to do so many things.

and washington gave me a different perspective. i also made, wrote and directed a miniseries on brown versus the board of education. >> rose: absolutely. >> in which sydney poitier ayed thurgood marshall and burt lancaster played john w davis. so-- . >> rose: two opposing counsels on the argument. >> exactly, in the supreme court. so you know, i'vead the oppounit to do really the creative things that i want to do. and i had just-- i can did produce from my friend terrence malick the james jones film, thin red line. >> rose: so the kennedy center honors which is as i suggested one of the great events in washington, and then seen on cbs on december 26th. this partnership has worked well. but it is something that i think people aspire to. it's likthe presidential

metal of freedom in a certain way. it is to honor people for contribution beyond sort of the obvious metals that they get. it's different than the oscar. it's for life. >> right. and it's their country honoring them. when i started the american film institute our sofs offices were in the kennedy center and on the 10th anniversary of afi we go an event, we had a white house reception, president carter and then an event at the operahouse at the kennedy center celebrating film. and the fix day i went down to thank roger stevens, no relation, who was chairman of the kennedy center, for letting us use the place. and i said you know, you have to have your own deal here. you ought to-- and he said, he had a way of talking. he said dow have any i.d.s? age so i-- we, i gave him the idea and it is just as

it is today, that we honor five people in the performing arts for their contribution to american culture and that excellence be the primary criterion. and it's inspired, really, by the words marble on the kennedy center that come from a speech president kennedy made at amhurst on herring robert frost in 1962, i believe. >> rose: he famously read from one of his poems at the inauguration when it was so cold. >> right, yes. but president kennedy said i look forward to an american that will not be afraid of grace and beauty. i look forward to an american that will honor achievement in the arts the way we honor achievement in business or state craft. and that's what the kennedy center honors are. the building is his

memorial. so it is in that spirit. and of course, the nice things that happened in life today and for the last nine years, i believe,arone kennedy has been the host of the kennedy center honors. >> rose: succeeding walter cronkite. >> yes. the wonderful walter cronkite. >> rose: let's return to afi. why did you create that and what was its purpose? >> that came out of the creation of the national endowment for the arts. >> rose: right. >> and i was in washington working for murrow when that legislation was-- this during president kennedy's time, was crafted. and when it was written it listed opera, dance, music, all the as. it did not list film. and i wrote to senator humphrey whom hi come to know a little bit, and said this is the great american

art form that should be included. and he included it. and then when the legislation was passed, they knew what to do with dance, music. but nobody quite knew you can't give a grant to warner brothers. so the idea of the american film institute emerged. and i agreed to start it. >> rose: yeah. arthur schlessinger and others said that fill some really, you know, our unique contribution to the worldment and we only add to the body of work in terms of literature and music. but in this case, this is something that america made a monumental contribution to. >> right. >> rose: when you look at what film means to america, to the world, how would you characterize it? >> well, gosh, it's-- well fromne standpoint it is shown the world what america was particularly back in world war ii when people

didn't travel as much and people hadn't seen americans. and when they-- . >> rose: they saw america through movies. >> right. >> rose: an when the gis were going through france, they looked like gary cooper and jimmy stewart and henry fonda. and so it has a tremendous influence around the world. >> rose: what have you not done that you might have wanted to do? >> gosh, i've, y kno i thk i've done-- i continue and love doing what i do. as you know, i had a chance to write a play awhile back about thurgood marshall and i had that on broadway. and when what i find is i live, i think what you can call a creative life. if i don't come up with an idea, nothing's going to happen. >> rose: but you also have management responsibility also. >> right. but that certainly in the world of film, you know, it's always been the challenge of gat filmmakers

that they not only have to have that artistic vision. but they have to be generals who can command troops. >> rose: i means that's exactly what directors are, they most often have been identified as more like generals than anything else because of all the things that su have to do. >> right. >> rose: . >> and there was a theory that prevailed for a long time that women could not or should not be film directors because they had to be generals. well, now we have many female geralbutalso we're having-- . >> rose: captain won the oscar last year, now has a new movie that everybody is looking for. >> absolutely. and no reason that i woman can't command the set and you know, get the film completed as well as a man. >> rose: you have many friends on the west coast too, in los angeles. >> i do. >> rose: from every aspect. i mentioned war wren-- warren beattie. i loved the kennedy honors when jack nicholson got it first and i wondered how

that went over because they're friends and share thanksgiving and other things. and difficult live that far fromach otr. yeah. and then warren was the guy who introdusd jack's tribute. >> right. >> rose: and then the next year, was it the next year? i think it was the next year, -- >> three years. >> rose: jack introduced warren. >> yes. and jack was, of course, well, you know, it's interesting. they really are and have been great friends and collaborators. >> rose: warren once told me a story that when he met jack, he then called him up and said listen, you and i will have to get to know each oerecaee're gointo b frien for a long time. i just know. so let's have lunch. >> yeah, well, you know, one of the joys of my profession, first of all, was that the associations i have had, you know from my father's time with really, i woon say that

the great figures but the people, the admired figures in film. you know, the great directors, frank capra and fred cinnamon and william wiler and david and of course the acters. but then kind of coming into the kennedy center honors world, that my, you know, yo-yo ma and all the people in dance and music and creative people are-- . >> rose: are what? >> wonderful, they're great to be with. you know that. >> rose: so what's on your agenda now. >> my son michael and i who is one of the wletions of my life is that michael is an excellent writer, director and producer. work together in the kennedy center honors. you can be-- you can be sure that his contribution to the led zeppelin segment outdistance mine.

>> rose: if he wrote that, you tell him he has my highest respect because i thought it was brilliantly written. >> sdechlt and he conceived that ending with stairway to heaven. and robert plant told me that they were loving this tribute, but we were kind of dreading. we know stairway to heaven is coming because he has seen it done so badly. and this eatmt wh the choir and strings, they really loved it. but we're making it a feature length documentary about her block. >> rose: oh yes, are you doing that now. >> the great cartoonist for "the washington post". >> five time pulitzer prize winner. and one of the really great journalists in addition to cartoons. so we're excited about that. >> rose: the president is standing, is up in the audience with the first lady. this president has been every year, has he not? >> yes. only on two occasions was the president not present. >> rose: any president not present. >> yeah. >> rose: and you see the artists surrounding the president.

and then you see, which i think belies the notion that was suggested in a fun way, that this was david letterman's worst night because he hated this kind of thing. >> rose: right. >> for himself. >> rose: right. but you looked up there and that and you say a man who was loving the moment, 4r06ing being able to reach other and say something to the people that he was sitting next to him. >> yeah. >> rose: and you thought my god, if this doesn't make you happy, what will? >> yeah, yes. and for people who have, you know, worked so hard over a long period of time, to have the country recognize them, you know, i think that's a very valuable thing. >> rose: that and to see people who are still at it too. each of those artists are still performing, in every case. >> yeah. >> rose: and dustin is now direct a new film. >> yes. dustin, the film on dustin, i, of course, have known and admired him for a long time. but mew in th film

came together you just realized what-- by seeing those different roles all in a four minute span, that you know, 15 seconds of the night cowboy goes to your heart, just extraordinary. and then the little piece of the rainman that he was, he did make the idea of the character actor as leading man-- . >> rose: that's the theme of the tribute. >> yes, yeah. >> rose: thank you for coming. >> charlie, thank you. >> rose: pleasure. back in a moment. stay with us. s oscar wildee once said life imitates art far more than art imitates life. for writer and director judd apatow his life and art have become practically one and the same. he explored the universal themes of sex, love and death. using humor and personal experience, and often his own family in the films. here is a look. >> what a-- that guy robyn

is marrying is such a good guy. >> he sounds like a good guy. >> oh, i hated himor like two years because he-- on me but oh, he's really changed now. he's a really good guy now. he's -- >> looked like your computer has chicken pox. >> those are sex offenders. these people live in our neighborhood. >> well, skip their houses when we are trick or treeingt. what dow want me to did, form a pose. i got my lynching rope. >> you shouldn't take it so lightly. >> i don't take it lightly. >> you know, i'm not going go to these people's house and say hey, can you baby-sit. >> if i didn't care about these things, you wouldn't care about anything. >> why dow care, you just met him. >> shut up. >> you shut up. >> guy, guise, george is to the going to die. >> george? >> he was sick. but he went to the doctor and they gave him different

types of medicine until they found one that worked. and now he's going to be just fine. he is going to live a really, really long time. >> -- well, you know, we all love him. 's made a lot of grea movies. >> i think she loves him like love, love, love, love, love, love. they're goog have a baby. they're going to have a baby. baby, marriage, love. >> rose: for his late these is 40, apatow turns his lens to marriage, parenting and the realities of middle age. here is the trailer. >> this sounds horrible but dow ever wojder what it would be like if you and your wife were separated by something bigger like death, like her death. >> i have give ten a fair amount of thought. >> no hitn a paful way but just like a gentle floating off. >> it's got to be peaceful. i mean stht moth-- mother of your children and the new wife would be great. >> i can't wait to meet my second wichlt i hope she likes me better than this

one. >> what are you doing? >> you have been in here for like 20 minutes. >> stop treating me like a child. >> stop it. >> this is a bunch of bs. >> are you acting like a b. >> you're so mean since your body got weird. >> isn't the music industry kind of a toughame these days >> i have responsibilities. i can't afford to sit in my apartment getting baked watching porn and going tomorrowie chili burgers at 3 in the morning. >> that is not even the order that that happens in. >> why does it is a 38 and not 40. >> because your mom wants to be 38. let's not mention it again. >> it doesn't seem like our lives should be this much work. >> if your son insults pie daughter again you will be so sorry. >> you touched my nipple. >> i got right below your shoulder. >> i have very high nipples. >> we're going to blink and be 90. >> what? >> we have to make a choice and make things different. >> hey, buddy. >> you should stop letting your god make you feel guilty.

>> i can't lend you any more money. your mother want you aborted. >> oh, jesus christ. >> don't let 40 hit you like it's 40. >> are those real. >> yeah. i'm just young. >> why do we fight? wince don't know. you get so mad at me. like you want to kill you. >> i do want to kill. >> how would you do it. >> i would poison your cupcakes that you pretend not to e every day. i would eny r last few months oingt but while killing you. >> he loves you because you're the fire. >> one person in a relationship is -- >> you know, i brought us a magic cookie. i don't feel anything, dow. >> i think this room has rodents. i just saw it. >> -- my star fish where did i put my star fish. >> she's laughing as much as you are. >> rose: welcome, great to

ha you. >> thank you lz also hear paul rud and lessie man who also stars in its film and just happens to be his wife this is a sequel. >> sort of sequel. >> rose: what does sort of mean? >> well, you remember there was mary tyler moore. >> rose: yeah. >> and then you got roda, or cheers, then there was frasier. >> rose: yeah. >> it's a spin-off. >> rose: a spin-off more than a sequel. >> we're lou grant, that is who we are. >> rose: you were minor characters in the knocked up. >> uh-huh. >> rose: and now you graduated to be the-- front and center. >> front and center. >> re: what is itstory line >> well, it is about pete and debbie, five or six years after knocked up. >> rose: yeah. >> and the basic con seat is they are spinning a lot of plates. we notice that all of our friends are trying to be, you know, good spouses, good parents, take care of their family, take care of their health, deal with like the world and that everyone has no time and is having a nervous breakdown. so this is the week they both turn 40 and assess how it is going. >> rose: and decide they have to do a lot of kpeferz

and change their lifestyles so they can be forever young. >> and then everything falls a part. >> rose: this is "new york times", how about this. thiss november8th. family business, judd app a foe puts his life, his wife and children on the screen. the set of a judd apatow movie can sometimes feel like a day care center for children and adults alike. what is with you? >> what is with me? >> rose: you just want them around you all the time? you just love the idea of -- >> yeah, this is kind of as simple as that. i mean i love less yee an my children. i love you, paul. >> judd is actually in the process of legally a dopingt me. >> rose: dow look forward to being a son. >> look, i have no control over it. i have been fighting it. he's halfway through the paperwork. >> rose: in fact, you like the same ackers too, don't you. i mean it's very rare that you find people that are you in sync with, and so you know, when i met paul, we just, you know, felt the same way about a lot of things. hit same sense of humor.

and so it's always fun to work with people, and you don't get to hang out with him unless you are work together, so that's part of it. >> rose: define what a judd apatow movie is. >> well, i think it's ultimately a comedy with very, i think-- . >> rose: observations on life. >> i think it's kind of-- these are comedies that could actually work as dramas. i mean they are serious stories in dealing with serious things. however, in a funny way. >> rose: dow feel like, lessie, that everything you do he's watching and he might use in a movie? >> i feel like everybody he-- everything he does we're going put into a movie. so it goes both ways. we do it to each other. >> rose: tell me more about the characters here. we will see the first clip abouits fa that s's noready turn 40. but who are these two characters? >> well, pete owns a record can. it's kind of a retro label. he's putting out all the artists he liked in the 70s and 8 0s. >> rose: but not doing so well. >> it's not working at all.

and debbie owns a clothing store and she's pretty sure that one of her employees just stole $12,000. so you know, they're a middle-class family on the brink of going bankrupt and trying to keep everything fresh. >> rose: and about to be 40. >> and turning 40. >> rose: and their fathers are as interesting as their might. >> that's right. albert brooks plays pete's dad. and pieces onof tho people who had-- he tried to have one kid when he was in his 60s. and it turned out he had three. he had three kid its. he had an in vitro gone terribly right. and john lithgow-- is debbie's father. >> who started another family after-- abandoning us. es a he a little more focused on the new family. >> rose: roll tape, look at this. >> you need to get outside more, do some playing outside. >> yeah. you can build things-- you could build a fort outde. >> what? >> yeah, build a fort. play with your friends and -- >> make a fort, outside?

and do what? >> have little-- . >> rose: do what in the fort. >> when i was a kid we used to build tree houses and play about sticks. >> nobody plays with sticks. >> you and charlotte can have a lemonade stand. >> play kick the can. >> look for dead bodies withness that's fun to do. >> get a tire and take a stick and run with it. >> nobody does that crap, it's 2012. >> you don't nee technology. >> n technology. >> put that down. >> continuing with "the new york times" piece which i found interesting, spread across the playing field all of the components of most of apatow's life, aspiration, obsession, anxieties, trusted collaborators artistic heroes and even his relatives. as a result when universal releases this on december 2 1st it will be the most personal film he has ever made or made to date. not only a movie that steer as way from the wild and unsettled single men of his earlie efforts like 409-year-old virgin but also one he created in close collaboration with his wife who stars along with his

daughters. it ithemost personal. >> it is personal. i mean we debate all the time how truthful it is and how personal it is some days are like this is really personal. other days are like this isn't like us at all so we change our opinion moment to moment. but the story isn't true. but it's about a lot of our anxieties and obligations, i think. so you know it starts out with me having an idea for a movie. and i will talk to leslie about it. >> rose: is she the first conversation you have about a movie? >> yes, yes. >> rose: she's living the life. >> yes, and then she will tell me what she thinks of . and basically we pitch scene ideas back and forth based on things we are liking and having trouble with each other which becomes kind of a coded discussion about each other. so i will say don't you think we should have like a scene where debbie agrees that she's controlling. and then she'll say -- >> do you think we should have a scene where pete admits to being kind of a

dick. >> rose: are you serious s that the way it goes in. >> it's like a hostile aggressive creative debate over many years. but in the end we get a lanced poi of ew fm pete and debbie. that both of them are equally right and wrong. >> rose: that's you what see in the movie. every time she says something about him, he points the same thing about her. >> yeah. >> i think that is what people do in their relationship is you always want to keep it on the other person's problem. >> rose: what is wrong with this marriage? >> in the movie or theirs? >> rose: i wouldn't go there. >> that is another show. >> well, i think it's a couple that, my own opinion, is that they love each other and they're dealing with problems that a lot of marriages deal with. and maybe they're just handling it in the wrong way sometimes. i think they're kind of succumbing to the pressures of all of it. >> it is a sea of bad kpun case. >> rose: sea of bad communication. >> that people, you know, we all know how we are supposed to talk to each other, to be kind, that we are supposed

to do deep listening. we are supposed to use a mess ages. and but when something makes you mad sometimes you're just fight or flight kicks in and you just say everything you have stored up that you are mad about. and i find that funny. >> why do we fight? >> i don know t makeno nse. >> it makes no sense. >> and you get so mad at me. >> oh pie god. >> like you want to kill me. >> i do want to kill you. >> how would you do it? >> i don't know, i would poison you. i would poison your cupcakes that you pretend not to eat every day and just put enough in to just slowly weaken you. >> i love it. >> i would enjoy our last few months together. >> me too. >> because you would be so weak and like sweet and coy take care of you. but while killing you. >> see, you know what i love about us? you can still surprise me. i figured for sure he would knock me out withneell swp but youould extend it over a series of months. >> have you ever thought about killing me. >> oh, yeah. >> really? >> sure. >> how would you do it. >> wood chipper. >> a wood chipper. >> yeah. >> a wood chipper. >> yeah.

wow. >> i know, did you see fargo. >> yeah. >> rose: now do you think that people watch in and laugh but also there's a ting of recognition? and that's why these movies are so successful, you're getting at something with a sense of humor. >> they say to us that they think we have a video camera in their house and that we've been watching them. people seem to relate to it. >> i know literally hundreds of couples that have contemplating using a wood chipper. >> is that your line or his line. >> i don't remember. >> rose: how much ad-lib do you allow, how much do you allow them to go off script. >> we go into rehearsals as soon as i write a very bad first draft so because we know we're making the movie together it's a different process. so six months before we shoot, we'll go in a room and read all the scenes outloud and that is whene will play and discover things. and that is when paul will say you got to do the scene where they talk about how

they wish their wives were dead. and say that is great. i'm glad you came up with it and not me. >> put it on me. >> i've outed him so hard on that joke, the whole tour. >> rose: how much do you want to put yourself in. >> well, not enough to do it i mean i find that it's paul is very charismatic. better looking than me. they're like the shape of his body hair is attractive. it's funnier than me. peopleike him more than people like me. so i think of my bad a trirbts and paul's good attributes. >> rose: are you going to take this, you know, through-- in other words, it is going to be a series of adventures of a couple as they go through life. >> we're going go michael-- every seven years. i don't know. we'll see if life seem as musing enough. >> rose: are these easy lines for you? >> because of the way he writes? >> you kow i think bause

work togeer now so many times, we can share a little bit of a brain. i feel like i love the way he writes. and i think we approach it all from the same point of view. and then he also allows for like he said opening it up and letting us, you know, play around with it. so i think the way he actually approaches filmmaking is something that i enjoy. and i love working with him. >> and with you too. >> thank you. >> absolutely. >> charlie, you're great. >> rose: but i don't act. i want to bring in albert brooks too, look at this, where pete asks his dad played by albert brooks y have three kid. >> why would you have three kids anyway, are you 60 years old, you have no money. >> because claire wanted a baby. if we didn't at least try she would have left me. she was 45 years old. nobody thought it would take. the doctor when we were

doing in vitro was winking at me like don't worry, don't worry. so i'm very unlucky. and now we have these three betifuchilen. >> rose: when you are watching him write this, have you been with him so that you anticipate where he's going? with. >> uh-huh, i would say so. i, like paul said, we kind of share a brain. and so we, you know, we have a shorthand with each other with all of it. you know, and we have, i mean we're constantly having conversations about what-- what we're, you know b sces and knees characters and y know, yeah, so it's-- . >> rose: an ever growing beast. >> but you think of scenes before you think of script, don't if you. >> yeah t starts with like hundreds of scene ideas so lessie and i will notice that our daughter watched the entire series. and that seems hike a bad thing.

it's too fast. and she's crying a lot. and she's disturbed. >> but it's a scene. >> i will just write down-- ma watches lost really fast. and then there is a sequence where lesley goes out dancing with megan fox. leie wl say once i was out with my friends, an entire hockey team hit on us. and it is nice to know that you are still attractive in and that is kind of an emotional thing and in addition to being funny maybe we should do something like that so i will write that on a card and at some point i have hundreds of cards and have to figure out what fits. >> take a look this is the last scene where pete and barrie played by robert watch desi, megan fox in the pool. here it is. >> o so that's the girl who works, that is the girl who works for you. >> yeah, that's her. >> work-- seems nice. >> my wife would never let me have a-- like that. >> yeah. >> every woman without works for us looks like they've been in some kind of hornl

sdont. >> are you comfortable with that around your huts? >> oh, he wouldn't know what to do with that. >> you think our wifes are looking at us right now. >> oh, definitely. >> he would look like a pedophile. >> rose: this is 40, opens in theatres on friday, december 2 1st. >> that's right. >> rose: that is like this friday. >> that is the date the world ends so see the matinee before you go, great to see you again. >> good to see you again. >> rose: thank you, leslie, pleasure. thank you for joining us. see you next time.

>> funding for charlie rose has been provided by the coca-cola company, supporting this program since 2002. >> and american express, additional fding provided by these funders